Editor’s note: The below interview contains spoilers for Dark Winds Season 4 Episode 3.

Three episodes into Dark Winds Season 4, and the AMC neo-Western crime drama is pulling no punches. In this week’s “Ahááldláádígíí (That Which Has Been Torn Apart),” Lt. Joe Leaphorn (Zahn McClarnon) encounters Season 4 antagonist Irene Vaggan (Franka Potente) for the first time. It becomes clear to our Navajo hero that the killer-for-hire is obsessed with him — and that makes her even more dangerous. Ahead of the Season 4 premiere, Collider had the chance to speak with McClarnon about what fans can expect in Season 4, the strange dynamic between Leaphorn and Vaggan, and his new role as a director.

Zahn McClarnon Reveals the Real Similarity Between Joe and Vaggan in ‘Dark Winds’ Season 4

Image via AMC

COLLIDER: If fans weren’t sure that Dark Winds could get more intense in its fourth year, I think Irene Vaggan and everything going on with that proves that it’s not slowing down any time soon. The scene in Episode 3 between you and Franka Potente, where she confronts Joe at the sweat, is especially chilling. Obviously, some of their differences are clear, but in what ways, if any, do you think there are commonalities between Joe and Vaggan? What makes her so interested in Joe?

ZAHN McCLARNON: Well, what makes her interested in Joe… That’s probably a Franka question. But she’s German, and she grew up with these books, these Winnetou books by Karl May. There’s a subculture in Germany [where] they have these weekend campouts, and people dress up as Natives. These actually still take place. They’re not Renaissance Faires, but people dress up in buckskin and play “mountain man and muskets.” They do that in Germany. It’s a subculture; they’re fascinated with Native American culture.

So, this character, Irene Vaggan, grew up with those books, the Winnetou books, and she seems to be fascinated, obsessed, with Joe Leaphorn. She’s a hitman. She kills people. And what do I think that I have in common with a Nazi hit-person? [Laughs] She’s certainly strong-willed. How’s that? When she wants something, she definitely goes for it. I think that Joe has those same strengths for putting himself out there and believing in something. That strength of believing is something so strong, and Joe just believes in other things. He believes in his culture, he believes in his job and what he does in protecting his people. He has different values, but he believes in those values.

Come Season 4, Joe is almost a new man after everything he went through in Season 3 and all the changes that have happened in that time between. We spoke last year on set about Leaphorn’s need to find balance in his life, something that Vaggan actually notes as well. In your estimation, what is it that he is actually needing to balance to become that man that Emma first fell in love with again?

McCLARNON: Yeah, that’s a good point with Franka… I think Vaggan is looking for that balance as well. Yeah, you’re right. I think that is what they do have in common — quite a bit — is that search for balance. Vaggan is searching for something that she never had growing up. I think they definitely have that in common because Joe is searching for what the Diné people call “hózhó,” which is “balance” and “peace of mind.”

I don’t think Joe has got his head straight yet. I don’t know if Joe will ever get his head straight. I think, as human beings, we’re always searching for that balance and happiness and peace of mind. This season, as Joe leans on his cultural ways, his ceremonies, to go back and to find that balance, that hózhó… Does he completely find it? Is he better from last season? I think he’s still dealing with the fact that some of the decisions that he’s made in the past are biting him in the butt. He might lose everything he loves, that he values. That’s Emma (Deanna Allison) and his job. He values those things, out of everything in life, more than anything. So, he’s on the edge.

Related

‘Dark Winds’ Showrunner Unpacks Season 4’s Terrifying New Villain After That Intense Premiere: “She’s Demented”

John Wirth also explains the process behind choosing which Tony Hillerman book to adapt for each new season.

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Zahn McClarnon Opens Up About Directing ‘Dark Winds’ Season 4

Image via AMC+

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In addition to headlining the series and serving as an executive producer, this season you also directed Episode 2 [“Bikéé’ Doo Éédahoozįįdę́ę́góó (Toward Their Unknown Paths)”], which included that killer shootout in the diner at the beginning. What was the transition like going from acting in front of the camera to directing the action from behind it? Was that something you’ve wanted to do for a long time?

McCLARNON: It actually wasn’t really on my radar, to be honest with you. It’s hard to pass up an opportunity when it’s… It wasn’t exactly offered, it was more: “What do you think about directing?” You know what I mean? It just became an idea. At first, it terrified me because I had never really thought about directing before. Except being on set for 30 years, I didn’t know anything about directing, to be honest with you. And I’ve become so embedded in this show, and being on this show for four seasons, I’ve learned more in these four seasons than I have in 30 years of being on any other set.

So, when it was suggested to me… I just couldn’t pass up the opportunity to learn more about [it.] Because I’m learning about producing, I’m learning about the writing room, I’m learning about production and being an EP on this show, casting, etc. Dealing with the meetings, with the network meetings, and marketing… I’m learning so much, so I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to learn even more. And directing? I have such a great team. I mean, I’ve got experienced directors that were sitting next to me. I’ve got very experienced 1st ADs, DPs, that we all collaborated. So, it was a huge collaborative effort. We’re going to try and do it again [next] season.

That’s great. Do you think you’ll try your hand at maybe writing an episode in the future?

McCLARNON: I don’t know about writing… I don’t think I have the brain to write. I’m too critical. [Laughs] I can barely get through an episode of television without questioning every movement I make. So, in writing, it would even be worse because I’m sitting alone in a room writing a script — if I wasn’t a part of the writing room — and… I don’t know if I could ever get through… I would always be questioning: “Well, it could be this way. It could be that way.” And I don’t have anyone around me to correct me? If I was writing by myself. I’d probably drive myself crazy. I really would. Who knows, though! You never know.

Maybe they’ll pull you into the room and say, “Give us your ideas.”

Maybe, yeah, if [showrunner John Wirth] asked me. But you’re asking a #1 on a TV show to come into the writing room? I don’t know if that’s the greatest idea. Everybody would be kind of walking on eggshells around the lead actor. I’m not sure that’s a great idea.

Dark Winds airs Sundays on AMC and AMC+.

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