Jake Johnson Doesn’t Think Karl Is a Villain in Apple TV’s ‘Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed’

Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for Episode 5 of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed

Apple TV has yet another hit on its hands with David Rosen‘s Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed. The darkly comic thriller follows Tatiana Maslany‘s charming and wonderfully messy Paula, a recently divorced soccer mom who, on top of a child custody battle and irritating young coworkers, is swept up in a chaotic blackmail scheme involving online sex worker Trevor (Brandon Flynn).

After five non-stop episodes, it’s become crystal clear that Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed is anything but predictable. One of the most interesting parts of the series, though, has (largely) nothing to do with Paula’s deadly circumstances. Paula’s ex-husband Karl (Jake Johnson) and his new partner, Mallory (Jessy Hodges), are pushing to bring Paula and Karl’s daughter Hazel (Nola Wallace) to Boise permanently, much to Paula’s growing frustration. In their defense, Paula hasn’t been the most trustworthy guardian.

Episode 5 of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed has been quite telling, with Mallory’s bribery twist ahead of the custody trial putting her in a darker light, and Karl lying about the cops adding another layer of deceit to their marriage. During this interview with Collider, Jake Johnson and Jessy Hodges talk about the importance of perspective in a series like this, why Johnson never saw Karl as an antagonist, and whether or not they were surprised about where their characters would go.

Jake Johnson and Jessy Hodges Reveal What Brings Them Pleasure

“I want to make sure I answer correctly.”

Image via Apple TV

COLLIDER: I’m really excited to talk to you both. Jake, I just want to start by saying Ride the Eagle is one of my absolute favorite movies and I really admire you as a screenwriter. As someone trying to make it as a screenwriter, that movie means a lot.

JAKE JOHNSON: Thanks so much! That was our little pandemic baby we made for $250,000. That was a little backyard project.

And Jessy, I love Barry. I feel like the common denominator here is D’Arcy Carden, I’m realizing.

JESSY HODGES: It is! [Laughs] It is.

JOHNSON: You love D’Arcy Carden. [Laughs]

HODGES: As do I! She’s like my best friend.

That’s so cool. Yeah, she’s great. Okay, let’s talk about this show. As we can see pretty quickly in the series, Paula has an outlet for her pleasure. Is there a TV show or a movie or maybe something you do that can turn your mood around instantly if you’re in a funk?

JOHNSON: Well, this is going to be hard because she’s masturbating.

HODGES: Oh boy. Here we go.

JOHNSON: [Laughs] I have an outlet for my pleasure, but I want to make sure I answer correctly.

HODGES: Careful….

[Laughs] I was thinking something more PG.

JOHNSON: I can always watch the show Cheers, which I love, but it’s different than what Paula does. [Laughs]

HODGES: It’s a different kind of a pleasure.

It is.

JOHNSON: [Laughs] I could watch that show endlessly, and I’ve been able to since I was a boy. I just adore it.

HODGES: That’s a great answer. It’s a classy answer. Mine’s not. Mine is The Real Housewives. It doesn’t even matter the franchise. Almost anything on Bravo is a pleasure to me. Right now, I’m really loving Summer House, but Real Housewives of Atlanta is really coming on up and Beverly Hills is always important to me, too.

Jake Johnson Enjoyed the Challenge That Came With Playing ‘Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed’s Karl

“I think everybody always thinks they’re the protagonist of their story.”

Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed is so unpredictable, all the way up to the finale’s final scene, which rattled me. What was your impression when you first got the story and learned where your characters were going?

HODGES: We read so many scripts and when I got this script, it just leapt off the page. It’s just so well written and so dynamic. There’s so much going on. Seeing that David Gordon Green was attached to direct it and that the cast that was coming together, I was just like, “I will give my left leg to be a part of this.”

What were your first impressions, Jake, when you were reading Karl? Because I feel like you play a lot of very charming characters that are really easy to like and you have really great chemistry with everyone you interact with. Karl is not really doing anything wrong — he wants the best for his daughter — but you kind of are positioned to not really like him that much. How did you approach that?

JOHNSON: I try to approach them all the same way. I viewed this from Karl’s point of view. I think if the script was a little bit different and we were seeing it from Karl’s point of view, the audience would like him a lot more and like Paula a lot less, but it’s her show. But I don’t view it any differently. I think everybody always thinks they’re the protagonist of their story, so from his point of view, he’s a really great father who has made a hard decision and that is to leave the mother of his daughter for a woman that he thinks is a better fit for not only him, but for his daughter. And he thinks the Idaho move is really great for everybody, Paula included. So when terms like manipulative get thrown at him, I think it was a shock to Karl. And as the guy playing him, it was a shock to me too. I was team Karl.

There were so many scenes where you could tell just without him even saying anything, that he didn’t want to do what he was doing.

JOHNSON: Yes.

He doesn’t want to rip Hazel from Paula.

JOHNSON: It was a very enjoyably frustrating job to have because I felt like they’re not letting Karl win and they’re not letting the things that he wants to happen, happen. And I’m not just talking about towards the end, but each sequence, like when he goes to the soccer game and he’s trying to be nice to her, Paula keeps doing things where you’re like, “There’s such an easy way we can get along and make this work.” And she never allows his plan to finish, which was incredibly frustrating. Again, I think if Karl was the lead of it, the audience would say, “Wow, how does he deal with such a frustrating partner?” [Laughs] But that’s me being a salesman again. My next job is going to be a real estate agent. I’d love to get you a beautiful property.

HODGES: [Laughs] Yeah, he has a whole plan.

JOHNSON: [Laughs] But that’s not about this.

Jessy Hodges Wasn’t Surprised by ‘Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed’s Episode 5 Twist

“She’s a lawyer.”

Image via Apple TV

Jessy, your character starts out fairly benign, and then she really takes things into her own hands. I think Karl gets really upset with the private investigator and her swapping the file. Were you surprised at the direction Mallory was going in?

HODGES: No, I was not surprised. I think it’s important to remember that she’s a lawyer, and I think she’s a very black and white thinker. Once it became clear that they were involving lawyers and courts in this custody situation, it became a thing to win or lose. And she’s not a person who looks forward to losing, which means she’s trying to win. Is it what I would have done myself? Not necessarily. But I think it was very consistent with the character.

JOHNSON: I have to jump in here. I’m sorry. I love Jessy very much.

HODGES: Uh oh, here we go.

JOHNSON: But she was confused about the character, deep into the series. When I said something about how Mallory’s kind of the bad

guy of the show. She went, “What?”

HODGES: [Laughs]

JOHNSON: I said, “I think you will see this.” We were at a restaurant and she’s like, “No. Mallory? No.” And I was like, “Yeah, I think she’s more than just Karl’s new wife. I think she’s somewhat of a villain. And Jessy very clearly was like, “Jake, you are crazy.”

HODGES: “Honey, you’ve got it wrong.”

JOHNSON: “And quite a big imagination.” [Laughs]

HODGES: Well, I mean, this actually speaks to the quality of the writing, but like Jake was saying, we are all the leads of our own storyline. So to me, everything that she was doing was pretty natural, and in keeping with what they’re trying to achieve for their family and what she’s personally trying to achieve.

Image via Apple TV

Tatiana is such a great anchor to this series and Paula is such a powder keg. What was it like sharing scenes with Tatiana?

JOHNSON: She’s an amazing actress. Really great to work with. Great to be around.

But what was interesting, at least for us, is we didn’t experience any of her other storylines. So now when you watch it, you get to see what she was going through, but especially in production, you’re not thinking about what else they shot. So at least for the three of us, we were in a little indie about a custody drama.

HODGES: Yeah. We were so siloed. We only saw each other, but just to add to what he’s saying, she is so talented and what she’s doing in this show is so exciting and dynamic and unpredictable and working with her was such a joy. I think especially as our duo too, because in the same way that Karl and Mallory are like, “Well, what’s Paula going to come at us with this time?” is thrilling for actors. That’s what it was like. It was like, “What is Tat going to bring this time?”

JOHNSON: Totally.

HODGES: My job was just responding to her. It was so easy to act with her as it was this guy. When actors are this talented, it’s just easy.

Thank you so much. I have to wrap, but it was a pleasure talking to you and watching the show. Thank you for your time.

JOHNSON: Good luck with the screenplays.

HODGES: Yeah!

Thank you so much! I appreciate it.

New episodes of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed air Wednesday on Apple TV.