Jake Johnson Was “Floored” by ‘Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed’s Finale

Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for the Season 1 finale of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed

The finale of Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed is very much in line with the rest of the season in that it is completely unexpected. David J. Rosen‘s comedic thriller, which follows Tatiana Maslany‘s Paula, a newly single mom in the middle of a custody battle who also gets sucked into a deadly blackmail plot, is an Apple TV hidden gem. For 10 episodes, the electric series navigates annoying coworkers, online sex workers, and, of course, murder. But within that chaos is another form of chaos: a custody battle.

Serving as its own story within the broader narrative is Paula’s relationship with her ex Karl, played by Jake Johnson. Karl is inherently positioned as the antagonist in the series simply because he is the ex of the lead we are all rooting for. However, from his perspective, he’s really not doing anything wrong. He just wants what’s best for his daughter, Hazel (Nola Wallace), which he happens to think means moving to Boise with his new wife, Mallory (Jessy Hodges).

During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider, Jake Johnson dissects why he was surprised that Karl lost the custody battle in the finale, why Karl and Paula’s marriage collapsed, and how unfairly positioned Karl is in the story. Plus, he digs into The Dink, his upcoming Apple TV movie about pickleball, set for a July 24 release that was designed to be a joke-filled blast bursting with cameos.

‘Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed’s Finale Was a Huge Surprise to Jake Johnson

“What [Karl’s] doing for his daughter, I think, is what he believes is in her best interest.”

COLLIDER: The last time we spoke, we talked about how this show is all about perspective, and I feel bad for Karl just because I really don’t think he’s doing anything wrong.

JAKE JOHNSON: You are part of the 1%, Emily. [Laughs]

Because I was really analyzing all of his actions and, especially in the finale, I was like, he really doesn’t do anything to be a jerk. (For the most part.) He’s really just trying to be a good dad.

JOHNSON: It’s funny you say that. The reaction from the audience has been really interesting for me. Obviously, I’m not any of the characters I play, so I don’t get my feelings involved, but I do find it intellectually interesting because I don’t think Karl’s doing anything wrong. If you look at Paula’s behavior from Karl’s point of view, he doesn’t watch the show. [Laughs] He doesn’t see everything. She’s probably murdered Caleb in Portland. She was involved in another murder. That’s all he knows. He has a child. [Laughs]

He just wants her to go skiing in Boise.

JOHNSON: [Laughs] Yeah! He’s willing to bring his ex who murdered a man.

So what has been the overwhelming response? Anti-Karl?

JOHNSON: As an actor, you only get to play the parts that are offered to you, so it’s nice to play somebody like Karl, who’s pretty “off type” for me. But those opportunities just don’t come very often. It’s been really funny to hear people’s responses and getting so angry at somebody who — when I read the scripts and I play him, I get why Paula doesn’t like him — but the anger from the audience has been interesting. They’re on Paula’s ride. It’s her show, so I get that, but I don’t think what he’s doing is all that bad. I think he’s doing what he thinks is best for his child.

And I feel like he does try to loosen the rope with Paula.

JOHNSON: I think he’s trying. I think he thinks she’s really irrational and really crazy.

How did you feel about his arc from the first episode to the finale? Did your relationship with Karl change at all? Did you see him differently by the end?

JOHNSON: Yeah, I felt like he was pretty sure-footed in all his decisions and who he was, and then somewhere in the middle, obviously, Karl and Mallory’s arc is quieter from Episode 6 to 8, around there. But it felt like all of a sudden it was shifting and Mallory was driving the train more. He kind of got lost in the sauce of making the decisions. By the end, Karl really was just trying to win, but he had stopped making all the decisions himself.

Do you think he was surprised at Mallory’s behavior? Because as soon as she switched out the files —

JOHNSON: Yes. I think from Karl’s point of view, he thinks he should have won by merit, and he’s not looking to fuck over his ex-wife and destroy his family. He does think she’s a great mom. I think he started to realize that his new partner was playing by a different set of rules. Where Karl, in my opinion, becomes more of a bad guy is that he didn’t know how to handle it when things went sideways. What he’s doing for his daughter, I think, is what he believes is in her best interest. But the decisions they make as a couple and what happens during the court case in trial… I think that all got away from Karl.

Do you think that after Paula gives that powerful speech that he changed his mind at all about anything?

JOHNSON: No. I think everything he said about Hazel is true. But they could also do that in Boise. [Laughs] It doesn’t mean she’s less of a mom. She’s part of you. She could be part of you elsewhere, too, in a more stable situation without murderers chasing you around. [Laughs]

Now I want a Karl spin-off. What’s his day-to-day like?

JOHNSON: Boring. Boring. It’s not a good TV show. He’s just a guy who’s married with kids in Boise.

A lot of potatoes, maybe.

Jake Johnson Says That the Events in Portland “Solidified” Things for Karl

“There was no turning back.”

Image via Apple TV

The whole Portland storyline is really interesting to me because it really starts to weave in during that bottle episode where we get a new perspective on how their marriage fell apart. Do you have any of your own theories of what happened? Are you truly in the dark?

JOHNSON: As an actor, I always try to write a whole fake novel of backstory. I’ve gotten past that era of my acting career. I’ve aged out of it. But I still need to know at least what I think is reality. It’s why it’s easy for me to defend Karl because I’ve created what I believe to be the reality from his point of view.

If you watch those scenes from Karl’s point of view, Caleb isn’t a disgusting-looking bad guy. He’s a handsome dude with hipster tattoos who’s making a snarly face. If I’m Karl, and he’s doing this level of intensity, and the way Paula keeps looking at him, you’re like, “What’s going on here? Y’all good?” [Laughs] So, I think from Karl’s point of view, he’s pretty sure something is going on with Caleb and his wife. What that something is, he’s not sure of, but there is something happening between those two, whether it’s a relationship or whatever. But Karl’s not part of whatever’s happening between Paula and Caleb. But what’s happening between Paula and Caleb is something. But Karl, with his job and with his kid, he just doesn’t want to think about it.

Then when the car accident happens and Caleb is dead, the math isn’t mathing. And he’s like, “You were pulling into the driveway and then slammed into him?” And then Paula does what she does, where she just starts yelling. Just because you’re yelling… I’m not hearing more answers. I think deep down, he thinks, “Oh my God, she definitely killed him, probably on purpose, with my daughter in the back seat.” And, because she was drinking at the party, she is going to jail.

Then Mallory saves it for them with quick thinking decisions. I don’t think Karl was having an affair with Mallory yet. I think he goes, “This is a better decision for my daughter and for me.” So I think Portland solidified it, and there was no turning back.

I feel like him trying to piece together what’s going on with them, probably gave him more permission in his head.

JOHNSON: Yeah. And then I think that when that night occurred, he thought, “When the shit hits the fan, it’s Mallory helping me save my family, as Paula is creating the mess. What’s the best move going forward?”

Were you surprised at the verdict in the courtroom?

JOHNSON: I was.

I was really surprised.

JOHNSON: Yes. So, we obviously get the scripts first, because we have to memorize them. Couldn’t believe it. Couldn’t believe it. And then I was the only one. Most of the crew, everybody was like, “Yeah, asshole, Paula’s going to win.” I was floored. I kept going to David Rosen like, “What? She’s a murderer.” Then that courtroom sequence, all the actors were so good. It was such a fun thing to do, but I could not believe that Karl lost. I think it’s an injustice.

Tatiana Maslany Made Acting in ‘Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed’ Creatively Fulfilling

“She helps you, as an actor, get into character very fast.”

Image via Apple TV

That scene when you’re giving Hazel’s bag back, the roles are completely reversed. You’re now in the mess trying to figure out your life. It’s a short scene, but how was it filming that back and forth with Tatiana? It was like an energy shift.

JOHNSON: I love acting with Tatiana. I think she is such a talented actress and she is so exciting to do scene work with.

Sometimes, truthfully, acting gets really boring and you’re working with somebody who’s not totally present and they’re thinking about the lines or they’re thinking about how it’s going to be in the end. You almost become producers in the scene together. And it’s fine. There’s a lot of ways to skin it in this game, but there’s nothing about it that’s creatively fulfilling. You’re just like, “You’re on your mark, I’m on mine, and we’re saying all the words. Who cares?”

Tatiana is the opposite. She is a live wire, and if you’re not paying attention, you’re going to get electrocuted. That scene and all the scenes, everything you prepared besides the memorization… throw it out the window, because she is going to do it differently than expected. What’s really exciting is she helps you as an actor get into character really fast because you’re now reacting to her, to Paula.

That scene for me was tricky because, even the reason Karl is mad at her in the pilot is not because she’s trying to do scheduling. It’s because a junkie called his phone and talked to his daughter and scared her. [Laughs] It’s not about the “eight minutes late.” It’s about that. Somebody called who clearly seemed to be on drugs.

In the end, she flips it on Karl because he’s saying, “Shall we get together and make a calendar?” [Laughs] I know the audience is going to cheer for Paula and say Karl really deserves it. But it’s just another example to me of like, all right, we live in upside-down world. I’m not understanding what’s happening. All he’s trying to do is say “Congratulations, you won.” He apologizes. He goes, “It was handled poorly on our end. I didn’t know what was going to happen.” And that is the truth. Karl has to deal with that mistake. That’s on him. He allowed that to happen. That’s a big fuck up.

Then he goes, “Okay, so you’re the winner. I’m the loser. How are we going to schedule our daughter’s life now?” And she goes, “Tighten your shit up.” I’m like, okay, this woman’s impossible. [Laughs] But I know Karl is a minority and the audience is going to go, “Yay, fuck him.” [Laughs] So, God bless, man.

That’s what makes him such an interesting character, because I feel like it could have easily… there could have been ways to make him come off as a jerk.

JOHNSON: I don’t think he’s a villain and I don’t care if everybody else does. As an actor playing him, I get that Paula thinks he’s a villain, but I personally think you can watch something and like a protagonist and see all sides. I might watch things differently than others. Mind you, she’s great, the show is great. For me, I’m like, “Let’s just look at the facts.” This is way more gray than black and white, guys. [Laughs]

I hope there’s a Season 2. What would you like to see explored in Karl? Where do you want his storyline to go? I want you to interact with more of the cast.

JOHNSON: I’ll be perfectly honest, for this specific job, it films in New York, and I’m LA-based. I was only out of LA for very minimal days. It’s one of the reasons why Karl’s character is small and kind of isolated. If it was an LA show, I would probably have more pitches.

But I don’t know. I love David Rosen’s writing. I love working with Jessy Hodges, who plays Mallory. I think she is so good and brought so much reality to the relationship in the world. I think she’s such a unique kind of step-mom vibe where that character for sure should have been the villain. But she never thought of herself as a villain. Even when she was doing villainous things, and I’d be like, “You’re the bad guy.” We would battle, where she’s like, “I think Karl might be the bad guy.” I’m like, “You’re the bad guy. You are for sure.” And so working with her was such a joy.

Working with Tatiana was so great. So anything for Season 2, if we got one, working with them again. But I don’t know what the storyline would be. I have no guesses. I’m not a “thriller” thinker. My spec scripts would never be thrillers. I don’t think that way. I was really sad when Dennis was killed because Murray Bartlett’s such a good actor. He’s excellent. I wish David Gordon Green did more. I liked working with him so much.

So, my big hopes for Season 2 would be David Gordon Green, more David Rosen, more Tatiana, more Jessy Hodges, and then whatever they come up with. Great writing staff.

Jake Johnson’s New Apple TV Comedy Movie ‘The Dink’ Is Pure Fun From Start to Finish

“It’s so funny how many opinions people have on pickleball.”

Image via Apple TV

It’s such a fun, unpredictable show right until the very last frame. Let’s talk about The Dink. Do you actually play pickleball?

JOHNSON: No. The way it actually came to me was the writer, Sean Clements. He’s an old friend and one of the funniest guys I’ve ever met. We did Allen Gregory back in 2011 together — an animated show with Jonah Hill — and he’s so funny that we just kind of kept track of each other. We were in a poker game hosted by our friend, Jeff Baena, for years.

Then he and I were getting lunch and he said, “What are you looking to do?” And my guess was — this was probably two years ago at this point — our country was going to be in a weird point. And so I was like, “You know what I’d like to do? Something big with comedic set pieces. That was just fun. That wasn’t teaching anything, that didn’t have any big lesson, that was just 90 minutes of fun.”

And he goes, “Well, what do you think about pickleball?” And I go, “Literally nothing.” And he goes, “Then I got the movie for you.” [Laughs] He pitched me the story and what hooked me was that it was loosely based off his real life, where he’s an old tennis player who got hurt, wanted to come back, but his back kept getting fucked up, so he went to a Beverly Hills pickleball court and played with three women in their 70s. Because it’s pickleball, before you get really good… it’s all angles and shots, and it’s not a lot of athleticism. He’s like, “They were beating me and my ego was getting out of control, and they were talking shit.” Then I went and played, and I got beat by like two 70-year-old Asian ladies. One of them was being so mean about it.

This subculture is so funny and the script is really great. Ben Stiller produced it, so we got to pick his brain. Josh Greenbaum, one of my favorite directors and friends, came on board, and it was just a joy from start to finish. I think the movie’s great.

There are those who love pickleball and hate pickleball, so it’s funny already. It’s so funny how many opinions people have on pickleball. [Laughs.] This is a goofy game people are playing, and the people who are playing it are loving it. Because I played with a bunch of pros, too, you’ve got to be so good to be good. It’s not an easy game. It’s so hard. If you want to get good at it, there are levels to the game. People are like, “It’s so easy.” I’m like, “Yeah, it is, if you’re playing your grandparents, you goober, but if you’re playing some pros, they’re going to kill you.” [Laughs]

I forgot it was the Ben Stiller connection, because my head went to Dodgeball.

JOHNSON: Yes. So tonally, it is very different from Dodgeball. I think people are making that comparison and that is a mistake.

[Laughs] Good to know.

JOHNSON: It’s a way sweeter, more “Apple” movie. Mary Steenburgen plays a big part. Her character and my character have a great arc in it. It’s way more about friendship and growing up, with great laughs in it and great set pieces. Then it becomes a full on sports movie. Andy Roddick’s in it. It’s just, honest to God, it’s atype of movie that I love to make and that I love that’s out there. I do think it’s important that entertainment at times is just like ’70s music, and you could just go like, “That feels nice. Throw on the Doobie Brothers.” I love Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed, but that shit ain’t Yacht Rock! [Laughs] There are so many funny people from Patton Oswalt to Aaron Chen, Lennon Parham, pop in with just laughs. Then you get Ed Harris being funny. Ed Harris was so funny and watching Ed Harris be funny, I was like, “Man, this just reminds me of movies in a way that I love movies.” I really hope people check it out. I think they’re going to love it.

I love when actors come in and destroy the scene and leave.

JOHNSON: That’s exactly right. Our movie is just packed. My character is moving the story along, and then throughout it… We have Fortune Feimster and Steve Berg — Steve Berg’s from the podcast We’re Here to Help — They come in and play either lovers or twins. They just play. There’s a five-minute sequence that’s just all for laughs. We tested and everybody just laughs the whole time. Then it ends and you’re moving on. That was literally just for fun.

Was there a lot of riffing on set?

JOHNSON: Yes. Tons of improv, Josh [Greenbaum] and Sean [Clements] are also pitching stuff. Stiller’s in scenes, too, so we were able to work with him and get his take on all the comedy, too. It was just so many great, funny people. Josh would give everybody freedom and then we’d have conversations. Chloe Fineman comes in, plays the ex, one of the funniest people I’ve ever been around. It was just kind of hitter after hitter. Everybody just kind of came in, crushed, and left. We all finished being like, “I don’t know how a movie could be more fun to make than that one.”

I hope there’s a director’s cut because I’m sure there is a lot of stuff that you had to cut. Kill your darlings.

JOHNSON: To such a crazy degree. We had a whole storyline in the middle that we had to cut. Like a good 20 minute sequence where Chloe and Dan Stevens are having sex in the back of a car while I’m driving. This scene was one of the funniest scenes I’d ever been part of. It’s one of those movies.

Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed is on Apple TV. The Dink premieres on Apple TV July 24.