Abi Tierney held court with the Welsh press this afternoon
Welsh Rugby Union CEO Abi Tierney insists her position is not untenable and is determined to see through the reduction from four to three professional teams.
Many supporters on social media are calling for Tierney to follow WRU chair Richard Collier-Keywood through the exit door following the collapse of the Y11 deal to buy Cardiff Rugby. After months of uncertainty the WRU have offered PRA 25 to both the Ospreys and Scarlets, which means they will retain four clubs until 2028 before reducing to three teams.
But despite the toxicity thrown her way, Tierney is determined to continue in her role.
JOIN OUR WALES RUGBY FACEBOOK PAGE Latest news, analysis and much more
“Yes, I am,” said Tierney when asked whether she was committed to her role as CEO for the long term.
“In my position, you wouldn’t not challenge yourself about whether it’s the right thing to personally from a family and a health perspective.
“In the last year, it has been emotionally draining and exhausting and very stressful.
“But actually, there’s something really powerful about knowing that I choose to do this job.
“I don’t have to do this job. I choose to do it. I think I reflect on the instability that would come if you change the chair and the chief executive at the same time.
“I think that would bring more instability into Welsh rugby, which I don’t think is needed but I’m also very aware of the fact that a new chair may have a different view on that. And I will listen and obviously respect that view.”
Despite the ongoing uncertainty and the sense the WRU have kicked the can down the road when it comes to cutting the number of teams Tierney insists her position is not untenable.
“It depends how you define delivering a deal,” she said.
“If delivering a deal is to sell Cardiff at any price when it doesn’t make commercial sense then to me that’s not the right measure of whether you’ve been successful.
“I think as a CEO you’ve got to take the difficult decisions as well and I think there’s as many people out there who are pleased with the result.
“I don’t think delivering a deal for the sake of delivering a deal is a reason to go. We always said 28 (going down to three years). We’ve been really clear it was going to be in 28.”
Here is every word of our interview with Tierney.
Abi, just explain what’s happened and perhaps more importantly, why?
“We went into a process to sell Cardiff. We started that process last autumn.
“We went out openly to the market. At the time we got two bids which were credible and one of those bids we took through to the second phase.
“It’s a big decision and it’s a complex decision. It’s not a small little business. It’s a big business.
“And we went through that process very collaboratively and constructively with Y11. It was a joint decision at the end that this wasn’t the right time to sell Cardiff.”
A lot of time and effort went into that. What was the breaking point or breaking points?
“There wasn’t really a breaking point, I would say. We talked a lot during that period.
“We looked at what they would be able to do and what we felt we wanted to be able to do. And it was generally a really transparent and collaborative process where two parties reached the conclusion that now wasn’t the right time.
“Some of it’s commercially sensitive as well. So, I wouldn’t want to talk about the commercial sensitivities around it.”
What’s Y11’s commitment to the Ospreys going forward and what’s the future? Is it to stick with four teams?
“I just recently met with James (Davies-Yandle). They are committed.
“They want to get the PRA 25 signed as soon as possible. So, we’re in that process.
“That’s their focus at the moment and they’re already turning their minds to what that means in terms of the investment that they can put in and that will take them through till 2028.
“They’re committed to doing that, and I know that they’re really excited about where Ospreys can go.”
Are you hopeful the Scarlets will also sign PRA 25?
“Yes, I am hopeful that the Scarlets will as well.”
So, the plan is still to reduce to three teams by 2028?
“Yes, there is. My board remains committed to reducing to three teams from an affordability and a performance perspective.”
What does the future look like for the Ospreys and Scarlets?
“I would say wait till June. I know that’s hard and people would like to have all the answers now, but we’re going to now work collaboratively with the professional rugby board to look at what the process will be post-June and then we’ll be very open about explaining what the next steps will be.
“I would just encourage fans to continue to support their teams, buy the tickets, cheer them along, because that’s actually the kind of the thing that will help the most.”
But you are back to the same state of play as when Cardiff went into administration last year?
“I don’t think we’ll ever pretend the last 12 months haven’t happened. I think we’ve all learned a huge amount along the way.
“And actually, I think it was really interesting. We met as a PRB this morning and a number have said just how constructive and collaborative the PRB is feeling at the moment.
“I think everybody is determined. Nobody wants to keep fighting and nobody wants to keep the uncertainty. So, I’ve got a level of confidence that we will continue to work together.”
Will you still be able to make the improvements in the pathway?
“That’s all protected under this model. We have sufficient finance to fund the PRA on four teams to 2028 plus the £28million in the pathway.”
What happens if the pathway starts to produce more and better players over the next couple of years? Will you then consider sticking with four?
“The number of players was one element. The finances was another really big element.
“We can have four teams, but we don’t have sufficient funding for those four teams to be competitive. And in order for us to succeed as a smaller rugby nation, I still firmly believe that we need a competitive professional rugby system.
“We’ve got other countries that will continue to loop ahead of us in that. It’s not just the player pathway, but it’s an affordability bit too.”
How long does PRA 25 last for?
“What we are saying to the clubs at the moment is it’s until 2028 because basically what they’ve got is fixed, guaranteed funding until 2028 and then at that point, we can change that.
“So, the actual whole agreement is till the end of 30. It’s essentially a break clause at 2028.”
Is this just a case of you saving face and it’ll be a case of the WRU scrapping the plan to go to three in 2028?
“That’s not true.”
Does the Martyn Ryan consortium come back into equation to buy Cardiff?
“No they don’t. We’re not selling Cardiff.
“It’s not the right time to sell Cardiff now with where we are in the market, so we’re taking Cardiff off the market.”
Can you afford to have four teams, own Cardiff and do the pathway funding of £28million?
“Yes, because of the improvement in our finances. We can do that.
“We’ve had a tough year financially because of ticket sales etc but we’re still performing a level higher than what we had been previously, so we can afford all four on the pathway investment.”
It seemed that previously, the pathway investment was only possible with going to three teams?
“I think that’s why we have to look at 2028, so that’s what we’re saying. We can’t keep the four on PRA 25 for longer than that and do the pathway.”
You still think you can do three? This was the easy way of doing it?
“It was never our way of going from four to three. I know I said that at the time and questioned that. They were completely independent processes.
“I never saw that as an easy option of getting from four to three. I think people assumed that’s what was happening. But Y11 remained committed to Ospreys as well as wanting to potentially purchase Cardiff.”
Can you still get to three by consensus? Or do you have to out to tender?
“I think that’s the conversation I need to have with the Professional Rugby Board over the next few weeks and see. I won’t rule anything out.
“I’ve learned that in this job. If there was still a consensus that could be reached, that route would be preferable.”
Why don’t you just shut Cardiff down and go to three? You could do it tomorrow and get what you wanted?
“I don’t believe it’s the right thing for Welsh rugby. I talk about my job as chief executive of the national governing body.
“I have to make decisions based on the whole system. That is often really hard, because it doesn’t necessarily mean individual bits of the system all benefit from it in the same way and equally.
“But that’s my job and I do not believe that shutting Cardiff is the right answer.”
So you’re valuing Cardiff ahead of the Scarlets and ahead of the Ospreys. That’s the only interpretation?
“No, I’m not.”
Well, one of the west Wales clubs is going to go?
“There are other options in the west. It doesn’t mean that one club is going to go.”
So, that means a new team will get set up in the west?
“Let us work that one out and we’ll come to you in June. But I’m saying I do not believe and the board does not believe it’s the right answer to shut Cardiff.”
What happens to the Cardiff debt now held by the WRU?
“I won’t comment on the numbers for Cardiff right now. We’ve taken them on as a separate subsidiary and that debt remains in that subsidiary. We’re not writing that debt off.”
Debts could keep rising from Cardiff. How long can you keep swallowing that?
“No, the debts don’t keep going up. The debts are as they are.
“We have modelled in our financial plan for the next couple of years – the forecast commercial and operational plans. We get to see that and we’ve allowed for that. We’re not increasing the debt to do that.
“That’s part of the decisions we’ve needed to make. Do you sell it now at this price or potentially keep it and know that there might be some losses, but you build and you improve the commercial prospects over that period?”
Why not close them or Scarlets down due to debt?
“That’s not the right answer for the system. There are two really positive things that came out of the PRA 25 and you’ll all probably recall this from a year ago.
“So one is that we’re doing a debt for equity swap. So that takes three million of that debt that we swap for equity.
“So that reduces the debt for Ospreys and Scarlets which is really important. We also refinanced which was really important for us be able to do PRA 25.
“We’re looking to try and bring some stability in the system by reducing their financial outlays.”
So how much equity will you have in them?
“So it’s through preferential shares. That’s how we’re doing it. So they swap three million of debt for that.”
What if the new chair disagrees with the direction of travel and wants to stick with four teams?
“No, because Richard finishes on the 16th of July so that would be shared before the new chair comes in.”
Do the west Wales clubs have to commit £5m in expenditure when they sign PRA25?
“I don’t have that to the top my head, because it varies by club. It’s basically what each club has to do. Each RPI, the owner funding, is basically to cover the losses of that club after we have paid our money.
“So I don’t have kind of at the top of my head.”
Can the Scarlets afford to do that?
“We have to go through that process over the next few weeks. You’d have to ask them that question.
“Different clubs have different losses. So we have to go through a process and one of the things we put in place after Helford was much more stringent due diligence, and we’ll have to go through that process.”
When does the URC contract end?
“So, the URC are working collaboratively with us at the moment, and they’re waiting for us to confirm timings, and then they will look to us. The URC contract is in perpetuity.”
You as a governing body can’t own any franchise in PRL if you want to go down that road in the future?
“I don’t think you need to have an investor model.
“If we ever got to the point, and at the moment, we’re committed to URC, where an Anglo-Welsh league then you’d hope that actually, that will be very attractive to investors.”
It appears more likely the St Helen’s redevelopment will happen now?
“Yes, it’s a great venue but you’d have to ask Swansea Council.”
Is it still the case the three licences will be one in Cardiff, one in the east and one in the west?
“Yes.”
Follow all of our channels to ensure you stay up to date with the latest Welsh rugby news. Sign up to our free daily newsletter here and our WhatsApp channel here for all the breaking news.
You must be logged in to post a comment Login