Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth has said Wales needs to see change to the nation’s Parliament at May’s election.
Speaking to WalesOnline ahead of the party’s conference in Newport which starts on Friday, February 27, the man who hopes to be Wales’ next First Minister said it would be a bad thing for the nation if change doesn’t happen.
Mr ap Iorwerth said voters need to understand “that it could be Reform [in government] unless people turn up in big enough numbers to vote for Plaid Cymru and I think that’s a message that’s important that people keep in their minds at all times.”
He added: “We need there to be a party that is bigger than Reform and it’s only Plaid Cymru – poll after poll after poll after poll tell you – that could be in that position. I really want to cement that in order to take Wales forward.”
Polls keep flipping between his party or Reform UK top with Labour either third or fourth. If that happened it would be the first time since 1999 that Labour wasn’t in power.
Are those polls right? The Ynys Mon MS said: “The real sense that I get – and I get it from polls consistently and more importantly on the doorstep, speaking with hundreds and hundreds of people throughout Wales – there’s a sense that change has to happen in this election.
“There’s a sense of expectation that the time is now, that it would be a bad thing for Wales were there not to be a change.
“It’s really, really important that we focus on that. In that option for change there are two directions we can head in and it is the positive vision, Wales-focused vision of Plaid Cymru or it is a new Conservative party, the chaos on offer, the lack of focus on Wales that comes from a new party on the populist right in Reform.
“Polls, as one might expect I guess, can vary but the pattern of there being two options, I think, has become pretty established now for, well, you’re talking 18 months.”
Most recent polls have shown Plaid Cymru or Reform UK in the lead and the most recent by More in Common put Reform UK top. Is that a worry, I ask him.
“I think it’s a focus.
“If we want people to believe us that we’re not complacent because we’re not because the election hasn’t happened. Some polls are making it clear that we could win this election but we haven’t.
“It’s really important that people understand that it could be Reform unless people turn up in big enough numbers to vote for Plaid Cymru and I think that’s a message that’s important that people keep in their minds at all times.
“We need there to be a party that is bigger than Reform and it’s only Plaid Cymru, poll after poll after poll after poll tell you, that could be in that position. I really want to cement that in order to take Wales forward.”
In recent weeks the tone from both Labour and the Conservatives has switched with both attacking Plaid as a “separatist” party which will “break up” the UK.
Is that damaging Plaid Cymru? “No,” he said.
“I find it very, very interesting that what you have is other parties paying a lot of attention to us because they know there is a very real possibility that we could be chosen by the people of Wales as that beacon of hope in the election on May 7 and the old guard want to stop that from happening.
“On the ‘separatists’ chants from Labour and the Conservatives people know that I am in no way an isolationist and my belief is in building Wales and in building Wales in partnership with others. But what I hear, and what I think a lot of people hear all the time, is Labour, Conservatives, and Reform just talking Wales down so much and trying to describe Wales as some basket case that should never be able to have an ambition for creating a better society.
“I don’t think that’s a very good look for them.”
Is there a target on Plaid’s back?
“There’s no doubt that Labour are targeting us because they can see the change that is happening in front of their eyes in Wales currently where so many people who have long respected Plaid Cymru and who understand what we are and what we stand for, but for whatever reason, probably because in the old-style politics, Labour could put themselves up as the best way of keeping the Conservatives out, that has all gone.
“So now Labour can see very clearly that it is Plaid Cymru that is able to stand up for Wales and fend off the threats of the populist right or parties that want to undermine Wales.
“It’s not surprising that Labour are entrenching now to a position of attacking Plaid Cymru as they see support for us growing.”
Their manifesto will follow in a few weeks but we know that it won’t include any referendum on an independent Wales in the first four years term of any Plaid Cymru government – Mr ap Iorwerth has made that clear.
But that’s a different tack to the last time Welsh voters were asked to vote in a devolved election.
Then, in 2021, when Adam Price was leader, Plaid said if it formed a government it would offer a Welsh independence referendum within the first term of government should it be able to command a majority.
I wonder aloud if that shift has caused a backlash among his traditional support base. Mr ap Iorwerth said: “I mean quite really honestly no. I was speaking at a Yes Cymru event recently and there wasn’t any backlash there either, in an event which was about independence, and that’s because people know that my belief in Wales, and our ability to shape our own nation, is ingrained deeply in me.
“I want to, and I will always make the case for us being brave enough and confident enough to, go on a journey as a nation but I also believe and people know that I trust the people of Wales when it comes to the pace of that journey.
“The key thing for me is that when I make the case to people why wouldn’t they want to have a debate on whether there’s a different way of shaping Wales’ future? They almost always, whether they believe in independence or not, say: ‘Yeah, absolutely right, let’s have that debate’.
“That is what my politics is all about. It’s about building a better future for Wales, dealing with stuff that we can now, on health, education, and jobs, but also making the case for where we can go when the people of Wales think the time is right.”
He did not expect a backlash, he added. “To be honest with you this isn’t something that I have put together as a policy platform. This is what I believe. And these are the discussions that I’ve had lifelong.
“I find that people agree with me that we should be exploring whether there are other options, whether they support independence or not, but that’s neither here nor there.
“And I find that people like the pace and attitude with which I approach this, which isn’t about separating – it’s about building new relationships. It’s not about breaking Britain up, it is about redesigning Britain, and I find that it’s a positive engagement that I have with people on that basis but this has been my position always.”
Ensure our latest news and sport headlines always appear at the top of your Google Search by making us a Preferred Source. Click here to activate or add us as Preferred Source in your Google search settings.


