Martin Lewis schooled Kemi Badenoch

On Good Morning Britain, money saving expert Martin Lewis pushed back firmly against Kemi Badenoch. Pointing out her blatant oversight, Lewis confronted her misguided approach to the student loan crisis affecting workers across the country. In doing so, Lewis gave a master class in how politicians should be rigorously challenged on policies that impact working people’s everyday lives.

Rather than accepting the Tories headline-grabbing promises, he instead pressed for meaningful solutions. In fact, his challenge was so robust that he managed to get Kemi’s commitment to a direct discussion focused on reforms that would genuinely benefit students.

As opposed to attractive soundbites designed to win votes, as politicians often do.

Martin Lewis: “I’m not saying nothing can be done. I’m saying what you should do”

Martin Lewis: If you want to help the middle-earning students, the most important thing is the repayment threshold should have been increased. When the Tories brought this in, it was a graduate contribution system.

Kemi Badenoch: This is exactly why young people are suffering. You’ve got lots of people who finished university where they didn’t have to pay fees. You didn’t have to take out loans. And now you’re all saying, “oh, nothing can be done. Don’t do this.”

Lewis: I’m not saying nothing can be done. I’m saying what you should do.

Here Badenoch deploys some pretty effective rhetorical word play to distract from the actual value of the policy, because apparently that’s not the point

Badenoch: Well, I’m the first person who’s even trying to solve this problem.

Lewis: Wonderful. Shall we have a chat about it? Because I think you’ve got the right idea that this is not a solution that will help middle and young students.

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Badenoch: Martin, if you want us to have a debate, I’m very happy for us to have a debate.

GMB: Does a middle student benefit from a cut in the interest rate?

Badenoch: I think people need to even know what it is I’m talking about. You’re both talking over me. Excuse me. Let me explain what my policy is. I want to make sure that those young people who are paying and paying and their debt is not going down get a relief.

If you think that there’s a better offer, let’s look at it. But what’s made the difference now is that in her budget, Rachel Reeves raised the threshold. So it’s dragging more people into it.

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Lewis: Freezing the threshold.

Badenoch: Well, sorry, increase the number of people getting in because the threshold has been frozen. I don’t think this is fair.

Lewis: Agreed.

Badenoch: The whole student loan system is not working properly. Someone has to do something. And the thing that shocks me is that the minute I say, well, let’s do something, everyone says, “oh, no, no, no, no, no, this is not the right thing”. We’re going round in circles.

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GMB: Cutting the interest rate doesn’t help them. That’s the trouble.

Badenoch: We should not be making money off graduate student loans. That is not right.

Lewis: I 100% agree with you in principle. And I’ve objected to it since when the Conservative government brought it in 2012. I said we shouldn’t have above inflation interest rates on plan two student loans.

Lewis: ‘But the practical solution, it won’t actually help’

Appearing to take a shit on the Conservatives that came before her tenure, Badenoch insisting she represents a ‘new generation’ of Tories. You know, the Tories that made this issue exponentially worse:

Badenoch: I’m glad you agree. That was five years before I became an MP. A new generation of Conservatives.

Lewis: But where we are now, as the interest has already been added to so many students’ loans, lowering the interest rate now will only help those who can clear within the 30 years, which means lower and middle earning graduates won’t benefit from that change. If you have a billion pounds to help students, the most direct thing that would help all students would be not freezing the repayment threshold, it would be increasing the repayment threshold. While the interest rate is psychologically damaging, I absolutely… I absolutely agree with you. It is really damaging for many people watching.

Badenoch: I just don’t think this is fair on young people. I just don’t think this is fair.

Lewis: But the practical solution, it won’t actually help.

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Badenoch: I strongly disagree.

Lewis: But it won’t help the pounding people’s pockets.

Badenoch: But the other thing that is a problem is that many of these young people have gone to university and taken out courses that were not worth the money. That’s why we’re also talking about apprenticeships. I also did an apprenticeship. I remember more about the apprenticeship than the two degrees. So I’m speaking from experience. I did an apprenticeship, I had two degrees, I paid off student loans, I know what it’s like. And I think that this is the best thing. We have got to start reforming the system and making it better. We can have an argument about the technical details, but this is about the principle. What is happening right now is wrong and someone needs to fix it. Conservatives are the only party who have an answer.

Lewis: Just to say, we’re now on plan five, We’re talking about Plan 2, which is always for past students. So I think we have to be very careful. The debate about going forward is Plan 5 student loans, which are even more expensive because the last Tory government put the cost up even more. But we’re talking about Plan 2 loans, the one with above inflation interest.

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Badenoch: I believe that the Plan 2 is where the real problem is. Those people who started their degrees between 2012 and 2023.

Lewis: Plan 5’s worse

Badenoch: Let’s have a debate about Plan 5 then. But what is the problem now is that any time someone says, well, let’s look at this, there’s always someone sometimes, it’s Martin, oh, this is a terrible idea, and then nothing happens. Nothing is happening. No one is helping these people.

Lewis: Shall we have a chat?

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Badenoch: Yes.

Lewis: Shall we have a chat about it? With some ideas and with some solutions.

People want substance and value, not style

Here, Badenoch pretty successfully leans on slick rhetorical wordplay. Nevertheless, Lewis refuses to allow her to shift attention away from the actual substance – and value – of the student loan policy championed by the Conservatives. Kemi’s focus instead becomes the framing, not the facts, with presentation takes priority over practical impact.

Despite her attempts to distance herself, this interview suggests Kemi is just like the Tories before her. All the while, hard-working people juggle rising costs and student loan repayments, feeling their finances tighten day by day.

Featured image via the Canary