[Editor’s note: The following contains major spoilers for Paradise Season 2, Episode 7.]

Following an early screening of Paradise Season 2, Episode 7, creator, executive producer, and showrunner Dan Fogelman and stars Sterling K. Brown and Enuka Okuma joined Collider’s Steve Weintraub for a Q&A discussing the series’ biggest reveals, the long-term plan for the story, and what audiences can expect as the show moves toward its already-planned third and final season.

The Hulu drama, which begins as a political thriller before evolving into something much larger in scale, continues to expand its mythology in Season 2 while deepening its characters. As the story moves toward its conclusion, the creative team is focused on delivering a carefully constructed ending rather than attempting to extend the series beyond its intended arc. Paradise Season 2 also stars Julianne Nicholson, Krys Marshall, Percy Daggs IV, and introduces Shailene Woodley and Thomas Doherty.

During the interview, Fogelman breaks down how the show’s mysteries are mapped out seasons in advance, Brown discusses why the series resonates emotionally despite its dystopian premise, and Okuma shares insight into the collaborative process behind the scenes. The trio also touches on everything from fan theories and production decisions to how actors prepare for complex serialized storytelling. Read the full transcript below, or watch the video above for the full conversation.

Get to Know the ‘Paradise’ Crew

The trio answer a series of questions to warm up.

Image via Trent Barboza

COLLIDER: I want to start with how much thank you for making such a kick ass show. Seriously. Thank you.

STERLING K. BROWN: Thank you. Big Dan. Dan Fogerman ladies and gentlemen, look at him. Look at him. Ah, he’s so cute.

Before we get started I like doing something at the beginning called get to know your paradise creator and stars. And we’re not gonna do all these questions I promise but I have 49 questions you guys are gonna pick some numbers.

BROWN: 49. It’s specific.

And you’re gonna pick some numbers but the problem is some of the questions are geared towards actors. Some are geared like anyway so if the question if you pull a question for an actor you know what I mean. Got it. So please pick a number.

BROWN: Me? Let’s see if it’s 49 the square root of 49 is 7.

I love seeing movies and movie theaters. Yes. Do you have a favorite movie theater?

BROWN: Oh man. So I live in Culver City for a really long time so that theater in downtown Culver City which is now back in there. It closed and it was arc light and then it closed and then I was back again. So that’s probably the one that I go to the most although I do really miss the landmark. Always off of Pico and whatnot so may it rest in peace. Please pick a number.

ENUKA OKUMA: Number 5.

What is the last movie or TV show you watched that you want to recommend?

OKUMA: Ooh. Oh that’s good. That is a good one. I’ll tell you something. I am in the middle of a Better Call Saul marathon. Oh no. Started a little late, a little late, but I’m really enjoying it and if you haven’t seen it I recommend it.

BROWN: Yeah. That’s a good one. That’s a good one. I like that.

Please pick a number.

DAN FOGELMAN: 28.

What’s the best fan interaction you’ve had and the weirdest?

FOGELMAN: On this show or in life? No no. We had some crazy ones sterling an eye during This Is Us because people would really tell you. I’ve had multiple people come up and tell us that either adopted a child because of the show or they named their child Randall or Jack or something like that. Those experiences are always wild. So that’s a collective group, just cool experience when that would happen.

BROWN: It is cool. I had somebody tell me they quit their job because of me because Randall quit his job in season one. I was like, bro I didn’t tell you quit your job. He was like I was already leaning in that direction. I was like fair enough. Fair enough.

FOGELMAN: I remember the weird, I’m trying to think of a weird one because nobody ever recognizes me, so it’s a better question for Sterling.

BROWN: I recognize you.

FOGELMAN: Thank you, Sterling. I remember I was once on an international flight right when This Is Us started and I kept noticing there was like a handsome man that kept looking at me and I was like oh this is cool am I getting hit on? And then he came over, and he started complimenting This Is Us. He recognized me and I was like whoa that’s weird. And then I could tell he was awkward. And when he walked away my phone started lighting up because it was in the early days of Twitter and I didn’t know when you were getting notified. And it had been Rob Thomas, the lead singer of Matchbox 20. But I hadn’t recognized him.

And he had written, I just had a funny interaction with Dan and I finally had more followers than my aunt. So that was a weird, fun one. That’s a good one.

Please pick another number.

BROWN: Alright I’m going to go with 21.

Brown Explains What Audiences Misunderstand About Acting

“And you’re really just trying to tell the truth as authentically as you can.”

Image via Trent Barboza

What do audiences misunderstand most about your job?

BROWN: That’s a really good one. Alright so I had this thing happen to me one time at church when I was doing a play. I was living in Brooklyn, I was living in Fort Green Brooklyn. I was going to a manual Baptist church and I was doing a play for the church. And this deacon came over and prayed with us as the cast. And he goes, he goes Lord even though they’re deceiving people please give them the opportunity to perform well and everything.

And I think that’s the interesting thing is that I think a lot of people have this idea that we’re very good liars. And I see it very differently. Like you try to inhabit the truth of the given circumstances of that character. And you’re really just trying to tell the truth as authentically as you can. So I’m actually not a great liar. And I think my favorite actors are ones who aren’t great at lying either.

Please pick a number.

OKUMA: Number 49. You said there’s 50?

BROWN: There’s only 49.

You’re about to say number 50, weren’t you? What’s a creative choice in this show that most audiences probably won’t notice but you’re really proud of?

OKUMA: Starting with the easy ones here. Oh yeah.

BROWN: You picked 49.

OKUMA: I did it to myself. A creative choice.

What does success mean to you now versus when you first started acting?

OKUMA: That’s a great question. That’s a great question. That’s a great question. I love that. No. I mean it actually is a good question because I’ve been doing this since 1990. And I was just so desperately always trying to get to a certain place and I finally in the last 10 years or so I was just like, you know what? It doesn’t matter. I have to stop striving, striving, striving and just as they say, enjoy the ride. Enjoy the ride. And as soon as I did, I booked paradise.

BROWN: Boom. Bada bing, bada boom.

OKUMA: So it is about surrender in many ways. So success is, I think it’s relative but I’m feeling very happy these days.

And the last one, please pick a number.

FOGELMAN: I’ll do 23.

Fogelman Breaks Down the Planning Behind ‘Paradise’s Twists

“It’s cool when that works because it means you’ve taken people on the ride the right way.”

Image via Hulu

Actually we can make this for a creative sort of choice but what’s the smallest detail you obsessed over for someone’s character? That’s interesting. That’s good.

DAN FOGELMAN: Well, since we’re talking about, we just screened this episode. I mean, trying to pull off the Dylan reveal here the way we did was a writer of the episode Melissa is here along with I think a few. And our editor. Melissa Glenn who wrote this episode and Julia and Romina who edited it are here. I saw them when I walked in.

BROWN: Right on. Right on.

FOGELMAN: Right on. There’s been a lot of math in years. I’ve been really proud of the, like even talking about our actor Thomas and his age in the first episode of this season and putting it will all make sense when it kind of comes back to play. So I cannot tell you the amount of time we spent in our writer’s room figuring that all out and then all that comes next is so complicated it hurts my brain.

But what was the question again? That was a detail that you obsessed over. I think those details, how to pull off. I mean, we, Sterling and I, have done two shows in a row now with big twists at the end. But there’s also the ways that you pull off a little twist or twists in the middle of things. And I think making that feel fulfilling and rewarding and kind of built-in even though you don’t see it coming. You guys weren’t sitting in the screening just now, but it was cool. He said his name was Dylan, and he said what his birthday was. It’s cool when that works because it means you’ve taken people on the ride the right way. And so that’s something we all work really hard at.

Fogelman Reveals the Long-Term Plan for ‘Paradise’

“And now it will kind of, again, transform as we head out of the second season and into the third.”

Image via Hulu

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Now I’m jumping into Paradise questions. Dan, when did you decide you were going to be George RR Martin this season?

FOGELMAN: Well, I’ve actually become friendly with George RR Martin. Text friendly. And you know, it was, it was, we’ve always had this kind of three season plan for the show. And when I first told Sterling about it, I said what the demarcation points would be in the show. How we would end the first season with him hitting the road and learning the world is out there. And the second season would essentially end with him being reunited with and finding his wife and returning to the bunker.

And what happens in the next episode, which I won’t spoil. And that the show would get progressively, would kind of shift in genre. I mean, in the first episode, you think you’re watching a political thriller. And at the end of the first episode, there’s like, oh, there’s something a bit more apocalyptic and sci-fi here. And then as we get deeper into the show, I hope the hope is…

BROWN: We got picked up for the third season. Yeah, yeah, I know, I heard. I don’t know if you know.

FOGELMAN: Just FYI. It’s a good thing because we start shooting in like two weeks.

BROWN: I know, you would have been really fucked. I would have been crazy. But… So I think, and then, you know, progressively the show enters a different space and genre. But we’ve been taking us there slowly. And now it will kind of, again, transform as we head out of the second season and into the third. I’m very excited about the third season. And I think what’s exciting to me is you can hypothesize and you could guess.

And you may occasionally hit on some things, but like, there’s no possible way to guess where this thing is going. And we’ve been really digging in hard and taking it very seriously. I’m very excited about what comes next. So, yeah.

Oh, I have so many follow-ups. Should audiences be more afraid of what they know or what they don’t know right now?

FOGELMAN: Definitely what they don’t know. I mean… My plan is… I mean, I always say with Sterling, it’s, you know… I got… I’m lucky enough to have had a couple of years in the sun with our best actor. And we’re going to put him through it next year. I mean, I’m going to wring him out like a sponge by the time… By the time we are done with this show, he’s going to need a real vacation. That’s my plan. I look forward to it. Thank you, sir.

Why ‘Paradise’ Is Ultimately an Optimistic Show

“And I always think sometimes people are just having bad days or bad years or bad decades or bad half-centuries.”

What’s something viewers think they understand about Paradise that they absolutely don’t?

BROWN: That’s interesting. Have you been following the fan theories as weeks come out and people have been positing their own…

FOGELMAN: My writers show me wild stuff. And once in a while, I’m like, holy shit, that’s the smartest person I’ve had. They should be president. And you all say, wow, people have a lot of time on their hands, you know?

BROWN: I sent you one and I was like, that’s not bad. That’s where we are.

FOGELMAN: Gosh. That’s spoilers, obviously. I’ve always thought that the thing people don’t see… I think people are starting to notice it now, because it’s ultimately a very optimistic show, even though it’s about the apocalypse. It’s optimistic in the way it thinks about people and who people are and what drives people. And I think in its log line, you would think it’s a very pessimistic show. But even as you watch the ending with Gary, the Cameron who played the male man, who I think is just such a terrific actor, there’s kind of a sadness and a humanity to him at the end.

And you see Sinatra has a whole different story, obviously, that we’re getting towards. And I love that moment when Julianne at the end of the episode is so light with her husband and she looks like a different person. She’s such a terrific actress. It’s like, oh, that’s a different person. And that’s a person who’s just had profound grief removed from them.

And I always think sometimes people are just having bad days or bad years or bad decades or bad half-centuries. And so I think the show is… I think people will find by the end that there’s a really optimistic heart at the center of the show in a really weird way.

What do you think people will say after they have seen the Season 2 finale and how many of them will be screaming at the TV?

BROWN: There’ll be a few screams. I think it’s good. I think it’s a solid ending to a season and it’s a good launch into a third season. And it does. The way he pitched it to me in the very beginning, each season it felt almost like the wire, how the wire sort of reinvented itself. You start with the corner boys, then you go to the shores, then you go to the politics of it all. But it’s all part of the same world, but from a different angle each time. And our show is like that, but it also just keeps getting bigger. It keeps getting bigger. And I don’t want to say too much because it’s really good, guys. Listen, let me tell you. You have an opportunity to do something of value. I remember when I did OJ and I was like, oh man, I got nominated for awards and it’s FX.

And I was like, I’m going to go do a network show and it’s going to be great. I don’t care about awards and stuff. This guy can write and I like the show, but we still got recognized in that sort of way. And I was like, all right, now we’re going to do eight episodes. Probably ain’t going to get a whole bunch of attention. That’s quite all right. It’s no big deal. But I don’t know, man. Dan is this wonderful mixture of intelligence and humor and humanity. And I think he can’t help but have it come across when he writes. You don’t think he’s as sweet of a person as he is when you just see him. When you just look at him, you’re like, ah, this guy is fine. But you look at the cheeks and how he turns red instantaneously. And you’re like, oh, there’s a sweetness to this guy. And he can’t help but put that into everything that he writes. And so it’s easy to collaborate with him because the message that you’re putting out into the world is ultimately an affirming one. And sometimes, like I think with our art, you can show the world as it is.

And you can in your own way sort of like tilt the world in a very gentle and easy direction in the way that you think it should go. And in terms of the options of being selfish and keeping things to yourself. Or actually being a part of society that loves and cherishes community and recognizes that we are stronger together. In our own little simple way, like it’s a dystopian, you know, but not in that sort of way. It’s like, you know, we still have choice to do good, to be good. So I think that’s why people have always resonated with it. He’s also a master storyteller on a character level and on a plot level. He gives you that engine that’s like, this mother, what is he going to do next? His M Night Fogelman, baby, you know what I’m saying? I’m hoping that Stark doesn’t go nowhere, but you never know what happens, you know what I’m saying? So I’m here for the ride.

Fogelman Teases Upcoming Mysteries and Character Reveals

“You want to stick the landing.”

Image via Trent Barboza

What do you want to tease about Alex?

FOGELMAN: I mean, you’re going to learn a lot in the next episode. Yeah, and then one of the goals of the show has always been, I like to end the episode with forcing the audience to get some answers and ask the next set of questions, and then I don’t want to end the season and have so many questions hanging over that it feels unrewarding. So you’re going to get a lot of answers by the end of the season and then kind of a new kind of set of questions or things that you’re ready to go see. I’m talking about it very carefully.

I’m going to ask the two of you, what was your reaction when Dan finally told you about Alex and where this was all going? Spoiler-free.

OKUMA: I mean, I just read the script and found out in that way, and just like you said, what I felt was great was similar to season one, you are satisfied, you know, things wrap up, but the whole world expands even more. But that’s all I’m going to say on that.

BROWN: What can I say about Alex?

FOGELMAN: Alexander. Sterling came into the writers room a couple of weeks ago, and we pitched him the third season. Tell him about when we pitched you the third season.

BROWN: Just stay alive. Alexander Hamilton, ladies and gentlemen, thank you. I cried. I cried in the pitch. He pitched out the whole third season to me, and I think it’s so beautiful. And I’ll say this on the record, because he gets mad when I do it, right? Because you made the George RR Martin thing.

It’s important. Because this crowd will understand it. You want to stick the landing. Yes. You understand. I ain’t trying to cast dispersions. You want to stick the landing. And they pitched out the third season to me or whatnot, and I was like, okay, I feel like our audience from beginning to end. We only had 24 of these joints to get to one place to another, but because we only had 24, it’s very little fat, and you get a chance to push the plot forward in a very muscular way. He was pitching out the season to me, and I was like, all right, is that the end of the season? He goes, no, that’s 301. And I was like, what the fuck? I was like, oh, that happened in the first episode! It’s really, really good. And I normally, and I think Dan and I are similar, we try to under promise over deliver, but my enthusiasm is hard to contain because I think his imagination is so brilliant. And it’s something that I don’t think a lot of folks would have anticipated or whatnot. It’s a wild ride, man. It’s fantastic.

What do you want to say about some of the character’s nosebleeds?

BROWN: Oh, look at you, you’re getting granular now, Steve. Okay.

FOGELMAN: Yeah, I mean, we’ve put a lot of, it’s not me. I have eight writers in my writer’s room that have dug in so deep into areas of, and genres that I haven’t tread in before. And really, I think that, about the nosebleeds, I mean, they’ll make sense. I mean, they will make sense. I think that by the time, if we do what I hope we’ll do, I think the final episode of the series will move you, and it will feel right, and you will also go, how the fuck did they get here from where it started? And if we do that, then it will be a three years worth well spent. For sure. And that’s what we’re trying to do.

Image via Trent Barboza

OKUMA: They don’t even, so they don’t tell us either. We’re reading this, you know things. If you want to know. No, no, no. I’ll tell you. I’m good with this. I’m good with not knowing.

FOGELMAN: It was in his contract after his seventh Emmy nomination. He gets to hear it early.

OKUMA: He gets to hear it early. Yeah. But they don’t tell us. And so, you know, we get sort of an overview of what’s going to happen in the season in a Bible, and I remember reading the season two when talking about the nosebleeds, and they theorized for us all the different possible reasons. Maybe it’s this, maybe it’s that, maybe it’s this, and my favorite was the last one was, and sometimes people get nosebleeds. That could be a reason.

Is Jane dead?

FOGELMAN: I mean, it sure seemed dead, didn’t it? I mean, you’ll learn more in the last episode. But yeah, I mean, it seems pretty mortal, the wound.

Nothing is…

FOGELMAN: I mean, a dead kid just maybe came back, so nobody’s really dead.

Again, there’s a reason I was asking that question.

FOGELMAN: They all cheered in here, by the way, guys, when she got stabbed. I’m like, this actress is… She’s an incredible actress, and she might be the nicest human being on the planet. And the fact that everybody hates her in this show, shows what a terrific actress she is.

OKUMA: She’s wonderful. And Gary hates you. The Karen is so lovely.

When ‘Paradise’ Season 3 Begins Filming and What Comes Next

“We’re about to get going.”

Image via Hulu

You touched on it a little bit, but when do you actually start filming season three, and how long are you shooting for?

FOGELMAN: We start in like three weeks, April 7th, I think. April 7th, yep. So we have basically all the scripts are written now. We’re finishing up, and our final touches. So yeah, we’re about to get going.

BROWN: What goes to about…

FOGELMAN: August. Should be mid-August, yeah.

So something that I really want to commend you guys on, and I speak for so many people in California, you shoot in California. Thank you. And one of the things that I think we all know is shooting in California is expensive. I’m sure someone along the way said, if you guys shoot this in Vancouver, or Atlanta, or some other place, you can get X number of dollars more towards your schedule, towards your budget. So what ultimately said, you know, we’re in California, and we need to be here.

FOGELMAN: Well, initially, I mean I said it, and then Sterling said it, and that carried a lot of weight. And it’s like, listen, Sterling and I, we have young families, and we said if we’d like to do this, but we’ll do it if it’s here. And particularly once, I’m one thing, but when Sterling says it, that’s another thing, and that makes it happen. I’ve been talking about it a lot, because my hope is that if we keep talking about it more people in my position and Sterling’s position will put their foot down and say, if you want me, we stay here.

But it’s a very complicated question. When you are scratching and clawing for every piece of a budget to try and make the show you want to make, you can make it for a couple of million dollars more, or a million dollars more, in a different city, because the tax credits are different, because the rules are different, a lot of stuff is shooting in Ireland, in Australia. I mean, I’m shooting a movie out in Australia that I wrote, and I mean, you can barely get a crew out there right now. I know Pete Cameron’s men are telling me they’re considering moving to Australia. And so, it’s complicated, it’s very easy to blame the exodus out of Los Angeles on one factor, when it’s really a combination of factors. There’s studios and networks not wanting to spend the money, the tax credits not being quite where they need to be, although there’s been improvements now. People in lead positions get so much money that it kind of drains the budget from all the other people working on the show, the unions. It’s a really complex problem.

At the end of the day, I’ve chosen to shoot most of my stuff here. When it can be shot in Los Angeles, sometimes things demand to be shot elsewhere. And I will take whatever budget they get, and if that means that, you know, I love the use of the final countdown in this last episode. That’s not cheap. You know what I mean? Those things aren’t cheap. But I would, if we hit the place where that wasn’t doable, I would have used my unbelievable score to end the episode, and that’s how we would have gotten by in that particular situation. And we have an extraordinarily healthy budget, so we’re not just your typical show. In order to get it made, you really can’t get it made in Los Angeles. So it’s like a lot of smart people need to hold hands and figure out how to get more stuff done here. It’s not just one group of people. It’s not the studios. It’s not Gavin Newsom. It’s not the showrunners or the movie stars. It’s everybody. It needs to kind of figure this out.

Will the series finale be an extended episode?

FOGELMAN: Yeah, still is. I don’t know. If it needs to be, I mean, if it needs to be, I don’t… What’s that?

BROWN: No, go ahead. I’m just thinking about it out loud. What would it feel like? You know what I’m saying?

FOGELMAN: Yeah, I mean, the great part about Hulu and these streaming shows is like, on This Is Us, man, every episode has to be exactly 42 seconds.

BROWN: 42.30? 42.30, yeah. I mean, I cannot tell you how much time in my life… He’d be giving me 51-page scripts. I’m like, this ain’t gonna make it on air, man.

FOGELMAN: What you doing? So, yeah, so… We have episodes that are 50 minutes, 60 minutes, 48 minutes. Typically, our scripts are in a range where it’s not going to be too much of a problem, so I don’t think we’ll need to, but if the story dictates it, I’d fight for that.

Fogelman Explains Why ‘Paradise’ Is Designed as a Three-Season Story

“That would be really great, but I don’t think artistically it will make sense.”

Image via Trent Barboza

I know this is a three-season show, but this is critically popular. Audiences love it. Has there been any discussion of some sort of like, spin-off, or is it really just three seasons? We’re in and out.

BROWN: We got this question before, too. You go. Yeah, you go, and then I’ll back up.

FOGELMAN: I mean, I think this show as it exists is meant to be three seasons, and it would be very hard to figure out a quote-unquote spin-off of it after. I doubt you’d ask me the question a year from now when the finale ends. That said, it’s definitely been brought up and mused about, we love all the people working on it, but I haven’t seen anything resembling a path for that. It’s definitely a three-season show, the core show, and I haven’t seen the path for a spin-off yet. But I have wonderful young writers, and I give it all to them if they come up with something amazing, but no one has yet.

BROWN: It’s a double-edged sword working for you in that you have a beginning, middle, and end in your mind from the beginning, and so it means that we get a chance to build toward something, so artistically, it’s incredibly fulfilling. I just really want my crew to work as much as possible, and with these eight-episode seasons, things get truncated in a while, and going back to the LA question, it’s too expensive a city to live and not work. So if we can have our cake and eat it too, you would mention your next show is whatever, you can do two seasons at once, so you’re shooting 16 episodes or whatever that case is. That would be really great, but I don’t think artistically it will make sense. Same with This Is Us. When we came to the end of that, it was the right time to end, I think three seasons because it’s been conceived as such from the beginning, I feel like if you go to four, it could be like a shark jump because it feels complete.

I think I speak for a lot of people, I love the idea of three seasons and being just a perfect three seasons, and that’s it.

FOGELMAN: I think the big thing is trying to figure out these shows, how to get them back on the air quickly enough. I had Sterling do a little recap online of the first season because I was like, I don’t remember what happened in the first season of the show. And we were back on quick, we were back on within a year, that we were determined, our studio and network were great about picking us up early, but man, it’s hard to get back into these serialized shows when you’re off the air for so long. So like Sterling was saying, that’s another way that more work can stay in Los Angeles, is if in these big shows when you have people you believe in, yes, maybe it’s an eight or ten episode show, but let’s bang out two seasons at once so then there can be a five month break in between the two seasons and you’re shooting season three, and that starts requiring a commitment before a show is a success or a failure. And that’s hard too, you’re talking about astronomical amounts of money. It’s a complicated equation.

The thing that I’m most excited about why I asked you when you were filming is, if you wrap in August, I know it’s coming back early next year in terms of season table.

BROWN: His goal is to give back at the same time each year. You know, we don’t like the two year wait and anything like that. Give the people what they want.

FOGELMAN: We actually would be shooting already, but like we had two pregnant women and the killies tending.

BROWN: Yeah, all of that together. We need to give it a little more time.

I love talking to actors about how they prepare for their scenes and their work. So you guys are filming, you know, hypothetically Episode 4, and you’ve been going, what does a typical weekend look like for you guys? Are you breaking down the script? Are you practicing like what it is actually like getting ready for the next episode? If you take me through your process.

OKUMA: You know, we’re lucky enough on this show to get the scripts early enough and have time with them. I’ve been on a lot of shows where you’re getting revisions the night before and it’s hard to keep all the stuff in your head. But with this show, they’re timely and we appreciate it. But I’m for me, I am. I learn lines pretty quickly, but I have to. I like to sort of keep it in my head, keep it in my body over a couple of days, weeks if I can. And then it’s the second set. It’s easy after that. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s kind of on the weekend. I’m running lines for sure. My husband’s here somewhere. He’s always running them with me. So yeah, that’s what I am.

BROWN: I always appreciate trying to learn my lines at least 48 hours in advance because it does like it’s like Thanksgiving leftovers. It tastes better the next day. So you’re not trying to like cram the night before or whatnot, but you give yourself at least 48 hours because sometimes I don’t have weeks. I’m a new girl.

OKUMA: Well, with your number one, it’s a little more.

BROWN: They got a brother out here tap dancing. That’s doing a bunch of stuff, boy. I got a fire like, please, can I memorize these lines? But it’s also, I mean, in a sense… I find tricks like this on the treadmill or walking around my neighborhood. Physical activity along with memorization sort of allows things to soak in in a way. And then like, I’ll play with different intonations and try not to come with one fixed sort of way of saying it because you don’t want to get locked into a line reading. So I’ll sing it sometimes. I’ll rap it sometimes. I’ll do it with an accent sometimes just being stupid in a very playful way because it keeps it sort of like it’s in there, but it’s not like that. You know what I’m saying? And there’s like different people in our cast do different things. Say Shahi, if you ever see her script, she writes down her lines over and over again in different colored pencils because she has to have like eight different colors of the thing in order for her to memorize the thing. I was like, that’s a choice.

The late great Ron Seafish Jones when we were working on This Is Us, like it was like a jazz score. He had like different underlines and circles and asterisks and all this kind of stuff, right? It was beautiful. My script is fairly bare. I do like, I will ask production for a hard copy sometimes. I’m trying to save trees, but sometimes I need to… I gotta mark my shit up a little bit. You know what I’m saying? And it does… having something tactile helps in a real way. And some people who are great with just the pad, God bless you. And I know there’s things I can probably use on the pad to get the… What’s the pencil on the pad called? I pencil. You wanted him. Hey guys, it’s a pencil. Brother looked at me like it’s just a pencil, bro. What are you talking about?

But there is a certain tactile thing that I enjoy with the hard copy as well. It’s also a matter of depending on where we are. This one’s not as bad because we do two episodes at a time, but you’re shooting out of sequence. So you always have to have, for me, remembering where I was before and where I was after. Because sometimes it can get sort of jumbled up in your head. So you’re like, alright, I’m coming from here and the next thing that I’m doing is that. Okay, and that helps too.

Give me just one more second. Dan, this is for you. Was there a performance that forced you to rewrite or expand a role?

FOGELMAN: Beavers? No, but I will say actually one of the most exciting parts is kind of an extension to that question. Anuka auditioned for, had one and a half, two scenes in the first season. Two? And I kept saying to her, it’s going to be a really big part. You just bear with me. If you bear with me. And that has been, it’s not a surprise and it’s not like we wrote more. But one of my favorite parts of this season is her carrying that whole two previous episodes. Being like, here’s an actor I wasn’t super aware of who read one scene and Sterling and I were like, yeah, we like her. We like that. And then just going, holy shit, we’re giving her half the TV show right now and she’s just been absolutely murdering it. And so that’s like a really exciting thing. It’s not like the coolest part of my job, it’s not necessarily expanding the part for someone. It’s when you go, oh shit, I’ve got it and I can give it everything that we hoped we could do in it. I can give her her own episode. She’s so winning, she’s so good. People are going to be so excited to see her with Sterling and she holds her own right next to this guy who’s a force of nature. And it’s really, really exciting. So that’s a good part.

Brown’s Meryl Streep Story Steals the Show

“And she kissed me right there.”

Image via 20th Century Studios

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This is going to probably be my last question. I’ve been asking this of everyone recently. Have you ever asked for someone’s autograph?

FOGELMAN: I mean, as a kid for sure, baseball, I mean, athletes are still my thing. Athletes are still my thing. Not in a long time. I’m trying to think if I’ve asked for a selfie, which I guess is the modern day autograph of anybody of late. And I don’t think, I mean, if I met like Obama or something, I’d ask for a lie.

BROWN: You haven’t met Obama? Nice guy.

FOGELMAN: What about you?

OKUMA: So my parents are huge Young and the Restless fans. So for them, I ended up meeting a crew member and for them, I got them a signed photograph of the actor who plays Victor Newman. They were really into it. So I asked for someone else.

BROWN: That’s amazing. I have a big crush on Meryl Streep. And I remember the first time I met her, she didn’t know who I was. I was like, I’m just a really big fan. And Dan had told me that there’s a possibility of me coming on to Only Murders in the building as a love interest for her. And I came up to her, I was at the Academy Gala and I was like, Dan Folgman says there’s an opportunity for us to work together. And she goes, wouldn’t that be fun? I said, woman, you have no idea. Then this is the best part, right? Because I done American Fiction and then I saw her at the AFI thing. You were there and she comes up and lovingly holds me around the waist. And she said, when I first met you, I hadn’t seen your work, but you were absolutely glorious in American fiction. And she kissed me right there.

FOGELMAN: I’m good, I’m good. By the way, that story had nothing to do with an autograph.

BROWN: That’s my autograph.

FOGELMAN: He just wanted to tell that story.

BROWN: Can I tell the third part of the story? This is the best part. We were at the SAG Awards, now the Actor Awards. And I was backstage with my wife. And now my wife doesn’t walk fast on red carpet days because she looks like a wounded deer just newly born. And the shoes are very, very high. So I’m always coming like, come on woman, let’s keep up. And so we’re backstage and I saw Meryl. And I said, Meryl. And she turned around and she goes, sterling. And she reaches her arm out and then I just walked up with Meryl because Meryl walks fast. She wears flats. And me and Meryl just walked and talked and had a little lovely time. And my wife was behind trying to keep up. And she said, did you just leave me for Meryl Streep? I said, yes. And yes, I did.

There’s nothing I could say right now that’s going to be better than that story.

Paradise Seasons 1 and 2 are available to stream on Hulu now.

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Release Date

January 26, 2025

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Network

Hulu

Showrunner

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Dan Fogelman

Directors

Gandja Monteiro

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Writers

Jason Wilborn

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