Live from the Manchester Evening News hustings
Hello,
There was tension, ideological clashes and a big laugh when one man was brave enough to cite Margaret Thatcher as a political hero in the former Wigan mining town.
As I send this email, the Manchester Evening News has just finished hosting a hustings for the Makerfield by-election candidates at the wonderful Winstanley College.
Labour, Liberal Democrat, Green, Conservative and Reform UK candidates were quizzed on everything from women’s rights to greenbelt development. Everything from hyperlocal issues such as the Bickershaw tip fire to national topics like immigration came up during 60 minutes of, sometimes tense, discussion.
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And they didn’t have an easy ride thanks to the very good questions posed by members of our audience. But it was perhaps the opening question from our editor and moderator Sarah Lester that produced the most interesting responses.
She asked the candidates about the horrific events in Belfast yesterday – and the violence on the streets that followed. Labour’s Andy Burnham said: “It’s never the answer to violence like this to then produce more violence on the streets. Violence that attacks people’s homes or public transport.
“Politicians and their words have consequences, and we’ve got to move back from a society where we’re stoking up further problems with violence leading to more violence on our streets.
Reform UK’s Robert Kenyon said: “Violence is not the answer. But people have got the right to have their voices heard.” He went to to say there “weren’t that many stabbings” in Wigan 20 years ago and suggested knife crime is “becoming normalised”. And he said “a real strict immigration policy” is needed.
“People who want to come in the country, by all means, come in the country, contribute, that’s fine you’re welcome to come here. Anyone who comes in illegally, this incident wouldn’t have happened if we had a firm grip on illegal immigration,” he said.
The candidates were also asked how they would manage immigration effectively whilst ensuring public services can meet demand. Mr Kenyon said Reform supports “net negative immigration” and said migrants who want to work for the NHS are “welcome to come”.
“If we’ve got the demand, the need, by all means come,” he said. “But as we’ve seen over the last few years, the floodgates have opened, the more people you have in the country, the more housing you’re going to need.
“It puts a massive strain on infrastructure like hospitals, doctors, dentists, schools, roads, and so on. So, at the minute, the population has grown massively.
“So, I do think we need to have net negative, start with removing people who shouldn’t be here, keep the ones who we want here, it’s as simple as that.”
Mr Burnham took issue with his rival’s phrasing, though he agreed that immigration is “a huge concern on the doorsteps” in Makerfield. He insisted the way to deal with it is “with care and control rather than rhetoric and division”.
“I’ll pick up on the floodgates comment,” he said. “Who was in charge of the immigration system when we saw net migration at the highest levels I think we’ve ever seen in recent times? Two prominent members of Reform – Suella Braverman and Robert Jenrick.
“So I think there needs to be some reflection here from all parties. There’s progress. Small boat crossings are down 40 per cent this year compared to last year. Net migration is down 80 per cent.
“Those are good foundations now to get the system back in a place where the public have confidence.” He added: “Let’s remember people here working here who contribute to our society, contribute to our economy, contribute to our NHS. Let’s get this whole issue back in proper balance.”
It was a sparky performance from the two front runners in this race. But there were clashes throughout the afternoon.
Mr Kenyon accused Burnham of being a “cardboard cut out” who will be at the other end of the country if he is elected. “You may as well vote for his PA as that’s who you’ll be speaking to,” he said. He promised to meet constituents regularly – including holding a surgery at the college – if he was elected.
Mr Burnham shunned the label and said “it’s always been this place where my heart is”. “The more power you’ve got to help people, the more this constituency would become the most powerful in the land,” he said.
In the midst of a campaign where Mr Kenyon in particular has been scrutinised over his attitude to women, it was a question from a WASPI woman that prompted him to clarify his thinking.
He insisted that Reform would protect women’s rights. “Every single one of them rights, pregnant, the lot, are all going to be protected when you talk about women’s protection,” he said, in a moment that garnered audible laughter from some in the audience.
This is just a flavour of the conversations today and there will be comprehensive coverage on the Manchester Evening News website throughout the evening. You can read all our coverage of the Makerfield by-election here.
And you can read about all 14 candidates standing in the byelection here. As I send this newsletter out, our video gurus are working hard to get hustings uploaded for your perusal. You can watch the full thing on our Youtube channel here later today.
The missing candidate
Since Rebecca Shepherd was announced as Restore Britain’s candidate for Makerfield, the Manchester Evening News has been requesting an interview, just as we have with all the other polling candidates.
We also invited Ms Shepherd to the hustings. She was not in attendance this afternoon.
Tips from the kids
We were lucky enough to hold our hustings at the wonderful Winstanley College – an esteemed institution that names Richard Ashcroft and Shaun Briscoe among its alumni.
And we were ably assisted in the filming of the event by students from Winstanley TV – part of the college’s media department.
At least one candidate, the Green Party’s Sarah Wakefield, spent quite a long time at the college chatting to students beforehand. She mentioned that she was asked better questions by the students than those posed to her by journalists. Duly noted and a win for any budding hacks in the audience today.
Ask a daft question…
It’s the question that strikes fear into the hearts of many a politician – what’s your favourite Greater Manchester band? In fairness, it’s not as easy to answer as you might think.
When we asked Robery Kenyon ahead of the hustings, he fired off eight. “It’s tough one,” he said.
“You’ve got Oasis, The Smiths, Happy Mondays, Blossoms, Courteeners, Joy Division, New Order, The Verve.” Forced to pick one he said: “It’s got to be Oasis.”
Green Sarah Wakefield told us simply: “It would have to be James.” While Tory Michael Winstanley went local and picked The Verve.
Andy Burnham was more confident, firmly confirming Oasis as his favourite. While Lib Dem Jake Austin said The Smiths, naming The Queen Is Dead as one of his all time greatest albums. “I love their sound, I love their vibe,” he said.
Maggie, Leslie, Caroline
It was a much more manageable question posed at the end of today’s event by our editor Sarah Lester. ‘Who is your political hero?’ she asked the candidates.
Jake Austin’s answer was niche – he cited Leslie Knope, the local government official from the hit TV show Parks and Recreation.
“Winston Churchill”, said Reform’s Rob Kenyon with certainty. “On the brink of being invaded by the Germans he kept us on the right track and turned things around for us,” he said.
“Caroline Lucas” came the answer from Green candidate Sarah Wakefield. “It takes bravery to stand up in a room where you’re the only person amongst 600 to say ‘we need to do things better’. And she built coalitions, she built friendships across party divides because that’s how we get stuff done in this country,” she said.
Burnham cited both Gordon Brown and Neil Kinnock as inspirations before landing on Nye Bevan. “We need to get back to a time when politicians have the courage to stand before the country and say, ‘here is a massive idea that will change things for the better for everybody, that includes everybody’,” he said.
But it was Conservative candidate Michael Winstanley who garnered the biggest reaction when he revealed – in a surprise to absolutely nobody – that his political hero was Mrs Thatcher.
“She turned this country round like no other politician, and gave us the vision to stand on that world stage,” he said. There were some ‘boos’ and a few laughs among the audience of Wiganers – let’s not forget this is a former mining town. But you can’t say Mr Winstanley hasn’t stuck to his guns.
Who are the candidates?
I’ve spent the last few weeks talking to the polling candidates in the Makerfield by-election. We’ve got a full rundown of who is standing for which party here.
And you can read my interview with Labour’s Andy Burnham, Reform UK’s Robert Kenyon, Lib Dem Jake Austin, Tory Michael Winstanley and Green Sarah Wakefield by clicking on each of these links.
Dolly looms
As the remaining few M.E.N journalists filed our copy from a room at Winstanley College this evening, there was a rather surprising moment. Just after 5pm the unmistakable opening chords of Dolly Parton’s ‘Working 9 to 5’ suddenly started blasting from some very powerful speakers.
The familiar ditty overpowered our riveting conversations about politics and the tap tapping of our keyboards. College staff will say the interruption was a mistake linked to a neighbouring dance class. But we think it might have been a subtle hint from our very patient hosts to get the heck out.
Weather etc
Thursday: Heavy rain. 18C.
Roads: A58 Gerard Street Westbound, Ashton-in-Makerfield closed due to roadworks from A5062 Wigan Road to A58 / A49 (Kings Arms traffic lights) until November 22.
No through traffic allowed due to emergency repairs and roadworks on A6010 Alan Turing Way Northbound from A635 Ashton Old Road to Wilson Street until June 16.
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