Few, if any, fighters would turn down the opportunity to train alongside Muhammad Ali. John Dino Denis did.
The world lost the incomparable Ali a decade ago in June of 2016. Sadly, the number of men that either boxed, sparred or shared a ring with ‘The Greatest’ in exhibition form has diminished quite considerably these past few years, what with the passing of former Ali rivals Joe Bugner, George Foreman, and a little longer ago, Brian London, Jurgen Blin and others.
One man who is still in great health and loves recalling the time he spent in the ring with the American icon is Denis. Today a sprightly 74-year-old recovering from knee-replacement surgery, Denis boxed Ali twice – in a 1972 exhibition bout, and then again in 1979.
Denis, who carved out a 45-5-2(20) pro record, speaks with Boxing News on the anniversary of Ali’s death, sharing his memories and recalling a particularly intriguing offer.
Tough question to start with: What does Ali mean to you today?
Well, it’s simple – Ali was one of the greatest heavyweights ever. He was one of the greatest fighters ever. He made it all look so easy. He was a big man, and he had quick hands, and he was so fast on his feet. I would watch him and try to copy some of the things he did. I liked the way he would move around and use his left hand. I saw how he did it, and I tried to make my left hand a good weapon. I did that. In fact, I caught Ali with a sharp left to the face when we sparred in Boston. He stuck his face out at me, and I tagged him pretty good. He wanted to kill me after that (laughs).
But, really, there’s nobody who doesn’t know the name Muhammad Ali, even the young kids today. He was such a great showman. He made the sport fun. Ali was funny to be around; he was also such a beautiful athlete. Ali is to boxing what Michael Jordan is to basketball. I thank him so much for basically giving me the defining moments of my career; he and George Foreman, who I fought in 1976.”
How was Ali in your first exhibition with him compared to the second one in 1979? Did you see any decline in the second bout?
Well, the first exhibition, Ali was in his prime; he was on the top of his game. The second time, he was out of shape. In Boston [the first exhibition], Ali was so playful. I actually got to the press conference late, and as I was walking in with my father, my uncle, and my brother, Ali saw me, and he hid behind a wall, and he jumped out and started throwing punches at me. He said, ‘Ain’t you afraid of me, boy!’ I told him I wouldn’t be here if I was scared. And then he said he wanted to box me first and knock me out. He ended up boxing me last; he boxed three guys that night. I was in actuality very intimidated by him. I was just 22 at the time. But I did catch him with that left jab; we boxed three rounds. After, he came to my room and he asked me what nationality I was, and I told him, French-Canadian, Italian. He said to me, ‘That can’t be right, you’re too fast for a white guy, you must have some black in you!’
Ali asked me to go train with him, full-time in Deer Lake; he said he’d make me champion of the world. My dad said to me, ‘Go! Go! Go!’ And looking back, I really should have. But I was a young kid, and I was afraid to do it, to leave my hometown and everything. But I look back now, and I realise that, well, being around good fighters all the time, great fighters in Ali’s case, makes all the difference in a career. Boxing is all about knowledge. Yeah, I should have taken him up on his kind offer; I really should have. But I said no, and he took Larry Holmes under his wing instead.
Another story I have of Ali. I was down in Florida, just two days before my fight with Foreman, and he [Ali] was down there making his movie [‘The Greatest’]. I came out of the 5th Street Gym, and he stopped everything; he stopped production of the movie. He walked over to me, and he started dancing around me, throwing punches, telling me how to beat Foreman! It was great that he’d remembered me, it really was. But it’s funny, because for the Foreman fight, I was trying to dance around in the ring during sparring, doing some of the stuff Ali told me to do, and I caught my foot on the canvas somehow, and I sprained my ankle. I could hardly walk. So Ali kind of cost me that fight, with me trying to adopt his tactics (laughs). But I do think I won the first couple of rounds against Foreman.” (Dino was stopped in the fourth round by Foreman, this in October of 1976)
And the second exhibition you had?
Yeah, that was in ’79, in Providence, Rhode Island. But before that, and I’m not sure what year it was, but it was before my fight with Foreman. Anyway, Ali contacted my management, and he was going to go on an Asian tour of 12 countries, to box exhibitions. He wanted me to go, and he sent Jimmy Ellis down to box with me, to see how I did with him, and I boxed Jimmy for three rounds. Later, they [Ali’s team] said they wanted me to go with him to Asia. I was really excited about it, and I signed contracts. But the deal fell through, because they, the various countries, they couldn’t provide Ali with adequate security.
The second exhibition, Ali wasn’t in shape. In ’72, he was moving around like he was 25 years old. By ’79, he was a little out of shape. Angelo Dundee came to my dressing room, and he told me to take it easy on Ali when I worked with him. I had no problem with that. I was always a gentleman in the ring; I would never take advantage of Ali when he was out of shape. I was just honoured to box him again, you know. In ’72, I never held back; I wanted to get up that ladder as high as I could. In ’79, I held back, but only a little bit, really. He wore headgear in ’72, but we didn’t wear it in ’79. Ali wore a full jumpsuit, or training suit, in the second exhibition. He really wasn’t in good physical shape then, and to be honest, I did feel quite bad for him at the time. It was just for money by then, I think. I didn’t want him to come back the way he did, and fight Larry Holmes. But Ali carried on too long, as so many of us [boxers] do. I did so myself. Ali, I think, made that bad decision simply because he really needed money.
Do you have anything negative to say about Ali as a person? It’s tough because we all love him so much…
Well, it’s not really my right to criticise anybody, but at the time, the only thing Ali did that I wasn’t too happy with was when he refused to go to war and fight for his country. I wasn’t too happy about that. It was his decision, but if he had gone to Vietnam – which a lot of kids did when they didn’t want to go – he would have just boxed exhibitions; he wouldn’t have seen any combat. And when he threw the gold medal into the river, why he did that, throwing away a medal his country gave him, I don’t know why he made that decision. To me, to win an Olympic medal for your country is one of the highest honours, you know… But who am I to judge Ali, or anyone else?”
Do you have anything else you’d like to say about Ali?
I do think it’s great how Ali affected us all. You know, Ali made so many people famous – he made Howard Cosell famous. Ali was so great for the game. Really, Ali made Angelo Dundee famous. Angelo was a great trainer, but anyone could have trained Ali. Ali had a gift from God. He was destined to become champion; he was just exceptional.
Also, I must say, as this seems to come up a lot these days – how would Ali do against Mike Tyson! I really believe, no doubt about it, Ali would have destroyed Mike Tyson. Tyson came up with heavyweights that were not in any way as dangerous as most of the ’70s heavyweights. Tyson’s biggest virtue was getting inside on an opponent; he used his lack of size to his advantage. But Tyson, though he was fast, Ali’s ability to stay on the outside would have made it so that Tyson wouldn’t have even got close to him. Ali would have kept the fight long; he would have never let Tyson get close to him, and he would have busted Tyson up. That’s my pick. I’ll pick a great boxer over a great slugger any day. And don’t forget, Ali had a big, big heart, and he sure could take a punch. He was just special, and it’s an honour to be able to speak to you about him.
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